Adventurous CMO
Adventurous CMO, presented by Grizzly, is a show about the leaders behind the world’s most Adventurous Brands. Each week, hosts Greg Gibson and Nate Spees explore and make sense of the changing world of marketing, and hold brave conversations with today’s brand leaders.
From rebrands to campaigns and creativity to culture, get a behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to be different, demand attention, and drive growth.
Alongside the world’s most innovative CMOs and creative leaders, we cut through the noise, break down the work behind the work, and help people navigate the best way to build brands that breakthrough in culture.
Join us on Adventurous CMO as we explore the insights, ideas, and innovation at the heart of the brands and the work you love.
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Adventurous CMO
ACMO EP10 - Creativity Is the Risk Worth Taking with Jacques Spitzer
What does it really take to build a brand that breaks through?
In this episode of Adventurous CMO, Nate and Greg sit down with Jacques Spitzer, CEO and CCO of Raindrop, to unpack what it means to take creative risks that drive real results.
They dig into how creative culture is built inside agencies and client organizations, the overlooked power of humor in brand storytelling and the importance of emotional connection in a world driven by data.
Jacques also unpacks his "brandformance" philosophy: a blueprint for balancing breakthrough creative with real business results.
For CMOs, brand builders and creative leaders navigating rapid growth and shifting attention, this conversation is a guide to making bold ideas work harder and smarter.
If you’ve ever asked yourself whether the creative risk is worth the business reward, this conversation is for you.
Sponsored by Grizzly, Adventurous CMO is hosted by Nate Spees and Greg Gibson.
Grizzly is an independent creative agency. We guide brands onward™ to challenge convention and impact culture.
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It's, none of the people on LinkedIn know that we have, we have climbed massive mountains to get to this moment. Technol, technological mountains of all shapes and sizes this morning long. We are hey, as long as Jacques Spitzer: we make, as long we make it here. And on top of that, I was telling Greg before we started that isn't life adventure all about the fact that there's always two paths. Jacques Spitzer: There's one. It's well beaten, it's well
tread, but there's another that you might have to take a machete to Totally this laser your own path. And that will be today's episode. Nate: That is grab your machetes, everybody. Jacques Spitzer: There we go. Nate: Yeah, you're like keep 'em close. But we're super thrilled to have you on on the show today. Nate:I think talking about is creativity work worth the risk? And we have obvi obviously been longtime friends, but beyond that big fans of the work that you do at Raindrop and the clients that you serve as an agency doing some incredible work as well. And this show is all about talking to marketing and creative leaders that are doing great work and making big impact, and you're one of 'em. Nate: And so excited for the conversation today. I think it would be great for you to start with a quick introduction of who is Jacques and how did you get, how did you get here? 'cause I think it's helpful to understand the paths we take into the work that we do. Jacques Spitzer: Wow. Okay. So many different ways to answer that. Jacques Spitzer: I, you can start Nate: at birth if you want. Yeah. Jacques Spitzer: I'm not gonna make anyone live through that. Yeah. I think the best way
to, to explain this, because I think it'll make its way into the conversation today around risk taking and creative and business success and brand performance and all the things I know we're gonna wanna talk about. Jacques Spitzer:Is, I started Raindrop when I was in my mid twenties, so 15 years ago. And I truly, all I wanted to do was help businesses. I just wanted to help people grow their businesses and when we're on set of these massive campaigns that we've done, done Super Bowl commercials and was on set of a real, like one of the big issues we've ever done was yesterday, virtual backgrounds. Jacques Spitzer: It was nuts. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, this whole thing started with helping personal trainers and like a nutritionist help get new clients. There was no big, massive vision for. Creating like culturally relevant advertising that people would know or reflect back. It was just like, I wanna help people. Jacques Spitzer: And I think that has
painted our path as an agency and the things that we have done and gotten involved in. I see the business as, and what we've done as a couple chapters. And one of the big pivoting moments was when we were inter we were introduced to the owner of Dr. Jacques Spitzer:Squat men soap company at the time, $3 million a year in revenue. And there are six, seven years in that business and. Fast forward today and if you Google it, I think they're what worth $2 billion, something like that. And so we had this amazing run with them of just creating amazing advertising creative for seven, eight years that opened the door to so many other brands that were working with today. Jacques Spitzer: Brands like Native and Spruce and Dude Wipes we're shooting a just for men ad right outside the studio right now. And a lot of really cool opportunities that. Sprouted from there. And the one thing that all of these brands tend to come to us for is creative risk taking. There's a lot of people that can make campaigns, can make commercials, can make
pretty things and are. Jacques Spitzer: Our agency's all about driving business results. We call it brand formats. And I'm guessing that's what we're gonna be talking about today. But I hope that's a generally good example. I don't know how you surmise 15 years of in one take. But that's what we're up to now. Jacques Spitzer:And then I'll add, I think, 'cause I think this will be relevant for people listening. We work with, like some of our biggest brands are with Procter and Gamble, but we also. We've worked with, like we helped incubate and start laundry sauce and grooms and like some brands that have really grown and exploded from literally pre-revenue now to being household names. Jacques Spitzer: And so we span the spectrum of who we serve and how we do it. Nate: I was going to bring on some some nude drops on the show and then I forgot 'em downstairs. But here we are. Yeah, here we are. Love it, man. Go ahead Greg. I would Greg: love to hear a little, yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit more of the, like the Jocks story. Greg: You
started at starting Raindrop, but who are you? Like how did you get to being an entrepreneur, founder, creative leader? What gave you that drive and that belief in Hey, I can do this. Like even if it's helping personal trainers or whoever it may be like. How'd you get there? Greg: Where did Jacques Spitzer:creativity happen? I, here's what I, here's what I'd say is I look back on. My, we, we'll call it like late childhood high school, college. When I look at my experience in college, I had a friend and I, we started making our own television show for the closed on campus circuit television station. Jacques Spitzer: And, we would write it, shoot it, produce it, edit it, and then I got a communications degree. And at the time I would say. Know, I took that very seriously, but there was half the people in the class that were there for I want to be in a fraternity sorority and I wanna get a communications degree. Jacques Spitzer: And so if we had group projects, I ended up doing all the work. And like at the time it was annoying but by the time I graduated
I had all these really interesting skillsets to be able to. Use a camera and make a WordPress website at the time, or, do these things myself. It's it's a weird thought, but I had no dream or no thought that I would ever get into advertising when I was in school. Jacques Spitzer:Even when I graduated, my first job out of college was at NBC. And I was there for just over a year and a half. Not even that long, but it was a really, I. Pivotal year of my life. Part of that is, and I would say the biggest part is I met my wife there. Shout out to NDCI guess. Jacques Spitzer: I dunno, feels really weird to say. We're celebrating our 14th wedding anniversary in nice sixth days. Oh yeah. Yeah, so excited about that. But Nate: on the 18th. Jacques Spitzer: Yeah, Nate: dude, I'm celebrating my 15th on the 18th, so there we go. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh man. Love. I'm sending thanks for Jacques Spitzer: literally one up engaged. Jacques Spitzer: I got married Nate: younger. I love it. Jacques Spitzer: I
love it. But no, INBC can't take credit for that one though. Jacques Spitzer: No. But we, while I was there, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Do, and I had this realization that it wasn't going to be in news. And but I always had these ideas, like I was always pitching them ideas. Jacques Spitzer:I, I'm not gonna go into the whole backstory on that, but I was always pitching ideas. And I. I was also really big on like making them like I got in I got in a lot of trouble one time because I had this idea for how we could promote the TV station to make our own commercials. And I started coming in, in the middle of the night from 12 to four to use the editing programs like. Jacques Spitzer: I'm like an hourly employee, like Nate: I, and you're rocking midnight shifts doing stuff and all. Jacques Spitzer: I'll never forget because I walked into the I feel so bad now, like all these years later, but I feel, because I sat down and I was like, Hey, I was like it was the woman that was in charge of the promotional stuff for the whole station. Jacques Spitzer: And I'm like, Hey, I made some commercials for the station like scratch
commercials that I'd love to show you. And she's okay who are you? Because like I'm on a different floor. I'm like, on the first floor, she's on the third floor and then she watches 'em and she's like, where did you get the footage for this? Jacques Spitzer:Like, where did you make these? I was like, on the AVID machines outside. And she's like, when? And I was like, I was coming in the middle of the night and she's you can't do that. Like it was, I was, Ima like imagining like now, all these years later, if one of my like young team totally members was just like coming into the studio in the middle of the night using their badge to get in and just like using the equipment in the middle of the night without asking any permission. Jacques Spitzer: I'd be like, what is wrong with you? It's too funny. I was so naive. So after a series of those type of things the president of NBC in San Diego, Jackie. Honestly started mentoring me towards advertising. She's you're, you'd be really good at advertising. I'm like, I guess like I, I don't know. Jacques Spitzer: I, that's not that's not what I was going for. And she introduced me to a local guy who made all the local
pest control commercials. I tell the story because it. It really solidifies for me, like the moment, like I, there's a whole show the guys that make fun of like local Detroit advertising, if that makes sense. Jacques Spitzer: I forget the name of the show. It's with Tim, I think Tim Robin Robinson and the other guy. Anyway it was like quintessential that they do all like the local like rodent kill, killing ad, extermination ads and all like the laying carpet ads. And I walk in and he's got two employees. Jacques Spitzer:And I remember looking around the office and being like, whoa, like I could do this. Like maybe one day I could have a couple employees and make commercials like I, that's awesome. That was the dream. So that was a dream. I don't know if that's enough on. No, that's awesome. I don't, that's great. Jacques Spitzer: I don't know what else to really to share about my, my journey. But I certainly did not, I was not somebody who was like, I'm gonna get into advertising. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna, I've talked to people who are like, I wanna win awards and I wanna do this. I'm like, I just
wanted to help people. Jacques Spitzer: And I, that's still how I feel today. I like, don't wanna get me wrong. Awards are fun, but not, why do this? I like to help people. That's awesome. Greg: From breaking Jacques Spitzer: and Greg: entering Jacques Spitzer: to Super Greg: Bowl commercials. Jacques Spitzer: Oh my God. The name of the next book. Oh my God. The next book. That's too funny. Yeah. Yeah. Jacques Spitzer: They were, she was very nice about that. Nate:Did, I'm curious though 'cause one thing that seems like it has been a constant for you, even in the backstory has been, you mentioned, oh, you were naive, but also it seems like you've been driven by you've been driven by creative vision and like the desire to create, which probably is half the reason you took the risk, whether you knew it or not, to go in the middle of the night and make spec ads and all that. Nate: Talk to me about is that the kind of just fuel that has always driven you towards storytelling? Yeah. Jacques Spitzer: Yeah. That's a great question. I. It's, I think something I would say that I have a business partner, Adam Wagner, and I, one of the things that always makes me laugh is it's like
neither one of us are intimidated by the idea that like, we haven't done something before. Jacques Spitzer: And I think a lot of people that, that if I had to like. Go back in time and be like, how did we get here? It was just like the constant kind of yes. If instead of no, because mindset, it's yeah, we could do that if we do this. Yeah, sure, we could do that if we do this. And and so I see it more like that. Jacques Spitzer:It's like when I see something that I feel like couldn't be better expressed or communicated, my first thought is okay, then let's just. Do that and then allow people to respond to it. And which on a side note is where I think some of these new AI tools and everything else, get really exciting because I'm like, now you can bring your vision to life faster and more accurately than ever to like, at least get it to a, for. Jacques Spitzer: For vision casting purposes alone. But yeah, I think I've always had that and I always, i've always wanted to bring, like I,
it, it's really gratifying to take a vision of anything creatively, strategically, and then give somebody something physical to actually look at and absorb and respond to. Jacques Spitzer: And so I love that about this process. I love seeing it go from idea phase to final. Whatever the final piece is, and then it's even more gratifying when you get to see people respond to it. And I know I I'm sure like having seen all the work that you guys do that's a big part of what you love. Jacques Spitzer:There's probably nothing better than like when you've done some of that work. Yeah. I've seen some of the work you guys did. Now, obviously there's a lot of the SaaS products, but you also have done some really cool like physical spaces too, and I'm like. Can only imagine sitting in one of those hotels or one of those restaurants after you guys have done all of that work for them, and you're like, we helped build this. Jacques Spitzer: It's really cool. It, it goes beyond the creative and into the physical world too. Totally. Yeah. For sure. Greg: How do you turn, I'll call it like
that naive optimism into a culture at Raindrop. I'm assuming that translating it to all of your employees, you're like. Hey, this is this is how we get to being able to hand some someone, something to look at this is the energy I want this company to be about, Jacques Spitzer: man. Jacques Spitzer:That's a good question. I would say, at the end of the day we do have we have our core values internally, of course. And one of those is make things better because we're like, it doesn't really matter where these ideas are coming from or anything else. And there's also just a sense of we are building the future together. Jacques Spitzer: I. I guess my 2 cents on that is, culture shows up in every meeting in every moment. I think that's been my biggest learning lesson about culture, not just creative culture, but as culture in general. Is that when people try to define culture though, like how to define it, you see something as silly as meals and perks and ping pong tables all the way to, these are my values on the board and on paper. But I'm like, truly, it's if I show up in a meeting and I, they scare everybody and to share it. If I'm not, if they're scared to share their ideas and if they don't feel like you're willing to put yourself out there and look stupid and silly, like it really is, in my mind it really is just about fostering a culture where people just feel like. No idea is a bad idea. Anything can spark something else. I think it also this is gonna be a crazy thing to say out loud, but we work with five brands that involve poop. It's like dude wipes, like dog food brands who like are all about, we have a guy here we joke, he's like our poop guy because like he gets like every poop. Nate: You're like, you get the poop brief. Jacques Spitzer: Yeah, exactly. He's got a little poop emoji next to his name on Slack. I will say that there is something about the fact that like through our work we attract people who are like, I want to take a risk. Yeah. I do not want to be. Ignored, I'm okay. Like taking bigger swings, right? Like we attract that. And I think when you track that from the client side and internally, it also sets you up in a good place. 'cause it would feel like throwing with your left hand if someone comes along and is we want, and I'll also say we, because we don't take that, the opportunity lightly. 'cause you could really, me that's a risk. There's a lot of risks that you don't want to take. And I think we do, probably 75% of our work involves some form of humor. And we're so good at it because we know all the things that you, all the traps you don't wanna fall in Nate: For Jacques Spitzer: using humor. And most people that mess up, it's because they want to try to do humor that's just not their, not their jam. And so I, when you ask about like the creative culture, I'm like, part of it is just now it's here and we're just trying to keep it this
way. It's not a matter of anything else. Jacques Spitzer: I think it starts with me, it starts with our creative director and how we respond to things and ideas and bring people into the conversation. Nate: Sounds to me like you've, brevity obviously plays a and humor, as you've mentioned specifically plays a big role in the type of work that you do. Nate:And you just mentioned it sounds like that's a flywheel, that once it gets going it drives internal culture and like a desire to continue to do that well, but also from an attraction standpoint, you probably don't get a lot of briefs that are like. Super, staunchly d outside that vein, obviously it sounds like you do some of them, but curious if it, do you feel like you have to educate? When clients come to you, do you feel like you have to educate CMOs and executive teams on how to do that? Or are they coming to you going, we've seen that you've done this and you guys have that with, work that you've done before that, but is it, or is it more of that where they're like, Hey, we've seen that you've done this. Nate: And been transformative with these brands. We want to be
transformed like that. Yeah. How does that work? I'm curious. Jacques Spitzer: Let's put it this way it's a mix of both. Of course. There are people who are like, I know exactly. I have a very clear understanding of how I want people to re respond to our brand. Jacques Spitzer:And you all have, I've seen it in the work before. But on the flip side, I think you know all, so just to get met on us here, and I know Greg's gonna love this. I follow Greg religiously on on LinkedIn and what he posts. But it's like at the end of the day, all advertising in order to be effective, has to connect emotionally. Jacques Spitzer: And there's only so many emotions. That you want to pull on. There's like the maybe like nostalgic or sentimental emotions. There's the emotions of like pride and, sense of ownership. There's the emotions of, humor and what we're doing there. And so at the end of the day, it's you have a
toolbox of what you could do. I think where people make a mistake is when they don't choose any sort of breaks through emotion. It's not funny enough, it's not sentimental enough. It's not anything enough, right? It just mi I think that's what most of us would just call a forgettable campaign. Jacques Spitzer:A forgettable ad. Totally. And the reason that we fall into doing a lot of comedy is. Comedy, I was just talking to the teammate just for men about this. It's like comedy's a great way to diffuse what can otherwise be a really like awkward, almost like shameful type shaming type of like situation where it's like we sell a lot of deodorant, like the only reason we're deodorant is because you don't wanna smell. Jacques Spitzer: And so it's how do you talk about that, without shaming people. We sold a lot of soap and it's again if there's the opposite of clean is dirty. And so what I look at is like humor is a useful tool because it could do both. It's, it can be very memorable,
very sticky, and it can help you to basically not stare too close into the sun when when addressing pain points for people, not shaming them, being able to make fun of other solutions in a way that doesn't feel. Jacques Spitzer:Bad. So it's a very powerful I've always said, like, whenever I ask one of my favorite things is name your top 10 commercials of all time to somebody. There'll be like, one to two sentimental ads and there'll be eight. Humor based ads. And it's yeah. They're just sticky. Jacques Spitzer: They work. And they drive sales, which is another thing that I know we've seen a lot of so yeah. Greg: Talk about brand performance and like you've been on this journey over the last, let's call it seven years of needling at that balance of humor and creative risk taking and business impact. Greg: What's that journey been like? How, like when did you start noticing, hey, this formula. Is really working for us. And tell us a little bit more about the philosophy.
Jacques Spitzer: Yeah, I think the, I'll couch it in this, I think that brand foreman and to be clear what I'm referring to there is people tend to think about. Jacques Spitzer: Advertising a lot of times on a, on an OR spectrum, either it's heavy selling, direct response advertising, or it's brand building. Jacques Spitzer:Or and those two things can't coexist. 'cause if they do, you're watering down one or the other. And that tends to be at times, even not just the philosophy, the conversation. Jacques Spitzer: And I think. Really, I, if I'm gonna put it pretty like bluntly, I think the rise of the internet and having to earn attention in real time has transformed the way that at least I, and we think about advertising because think about, like right now still so many brands are out there and they're running a hundred million dollars, $200 million worth of. Jacques Spitzer: 15
second or 32nd television advertising. And they're just dumping their spend there. And then on, let's say, meta or wherever else, they're just like, have some still images whatever. And like basically what they're banking on still is that we're just going to get as many impressions as possible and we're gonna tell a story. Jacques Spitzer:They don't have to earn your attention. They're just like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna force you to be able to watch your ads over and over, whereas. When you start from a direct response, like a, almost like a, we are our roots, were more that direct to consumer world. When you start there, as a, almost like a brand in the gym working out, like you have to develop the muscle for what's gonna grab someone's attention. Jacques Spitzer: Like literally, I think to myself. What's gonna grab your attention? What's gonna convince you to potentially take a different action in the future than you're currently taking? And how am I going to create a sense of urgency to try something new? And when you have to think about those things, it will impact the way you even make a 15 second
ad or a 32nd ad eventually. Jacques Spitzer:And so I think one of the most interesting things I've seen are. Clients do over the years is have to go through the process to create a two or three minute ad for YouTube. Because when we started realizing that people are willing to watch your commercials if they're good, like if they're interesting, like they will watch 'em and they will buy, we have some ads that have done a billion views in terms of like scalably, like you could just keep spending and it just kept selling. Jacques Spitzer: And I'm like, what creates that is you make an ad that's. As good as a Mr. Beast video. Like how do you think about advertising in that way? And if you do, people will watch it. And then translating that into shorter formats for other areas, it's now you have this story that you can tell that works, that produces real time sales than you can then extrapolate that out and bring it to other mediums. Jacques Spitzer: So I hope I answered your question. In a way that. I don't know. It helps
to digest the philosophy of it, if you want to drive any sense of performance and brand on these online things, you have to earn that attention. I. And so when you have that, you extrapolate to other channels and you can get them to work harder for you. Jacques Spitzer:And that's what we see. A lot of our a lot of our advertising has been really successful in television, but even when these larger companies put them through their internal testing software, they're off the charts. Some of the top scores, I'm like, yes, because we're bringing that same philosophy to a shorter asset. Nate: Sure. How does it I'm curious what your thought is with scale, with growth. A lot of organizations are especially I'm curious if you've experienced it in the D two C world. We've experienced it with brands that have grown rapidly over the years. They're. There's like a constant and shiny object syndrome exists in, in, in every organization. Nate: But there's like the next best thing is gonna be the best
thing type mentality. And I'm curious if what your take is on, 'cause when you risk and you put new creative out and it's winning you wanna do more of that obviously. But then simultaneously we've seen the opposite where you go it got us to here now we're gonna try. Nate:A whole different approach. I'm curious what you're like, how you keep central to vision with the brands that you're working with as they continue to grow and scale, and then you're alongside as a partner to say, Hey, how do we lock in on the core, core priority of the business outcomes without necessarily getting distracted by all the other things that can come up as you continue to grow. Jacques Spitzer: Let's go on an adventure together. I'm ready. I'm with that question. I here's what I'd say is the honest answer to that, which is I think a lot of times people when you think of the evolution of, we'll call it a brand story and a brand experience it's, it is a I've noticed it
is a moving target of, you have on the, like for us, actually, the biggest thing that changes on our rapidly growing brands is that the people who. Jacques Spitzer:Start with us, get, when it grows that fast, they get rapidly promoted and they may take on another, maybe they move to other companies and like new people come in and it's all of a sudden, even though you've had all the success, you now have these new people who come in and they don't know you, they don't trust you, they don't, they have their own thoughts. Jacques Spitzer: That's, that actually tends to be more of what we see than, than someone pushing something to the point of fatigue, I think. 'cause I think one, one of the things we've all recognized is that, there is power in being consistent. There's power in replication. I was on a kickoff call this morning and I said to the team, if you cracked your windshield right now on your car, what's the first thing you think of to help get repaired? Jacques Spitzer: And everyone was like, safe light. I'm
like, but more specifically, what do you think the jingle, they think about the jingle? And I'm like, guys, think about that. That's insane, right? That is such a niche problem. I cracked windshield and a jingle. Is the jingle brilliant? Probably not. Is it has anything, nothing. Jacques Spitzer:It's just been so damn consistent. Imagine if they hadn't done that. If they hadn't committed to that they would not be in that situation today. And I think. Again I think more brands would be better off investing in consistency because there's a, it you just, it's, it just seems to be something that, again, it works, but it has to be consistency based on something that has an insight is potentially connective and endearing. Jacques Spitzer: But yeah, mean we all, i, again I'm answering that question in a different way. 'cause I'm like, the reality is like I have not been in a lot of relationships where we're 10 years into working with the brand
and, I'd love to do that. I think that's something that you've maybe saw more like over the past and through the decades and it is how some of the bigger. Jacques Spitzer: Like the PNGs and the Unilever's, the really big 'cause like their people switch out a lot. And so it's like a lot of the consistency actually comes from the agency side more than like the individual team members. And yeah, it's just, it is an interesting journey and when to take those risks. Jacques Spitzer:I think that's the biggest thing I see with the great brands preemptively always take the the next risk, but it's not usually out of left field. It's like it has to make sense given what they've done previously for the brand. And when you do that, magic happens. You could probably rattle off. Jacques Spitzer: 12, 10 to 12 brands right now that you feel like do that and do that well. Nate: I think Kevin Dahlstrom, when he was on our show a few episodes back me mentioned the idea of taking asynchronous bets. And and it's still risk, but there's the reality of you're not just
like throwing a random, spaghetti at the wall. Nate: It's still built on the reality of what you've learned. And a foundation of. Of strategy often. And so I agree with you. I think that there's yeah, we all could do that right now. Name brands that have done that consistently, and now I'm gonna, thanks to you, I'm gonna be seeing the Safelite jingle in my head all day, so I appreciate it. Nate: Oh my Jacques Spitzer: gosh. Oh my gosh. I'm sorry to do that to you. Greg:Let's all go to Convoy and do jingle karaoke. Yeah, sometimes Jacques Spitzer: I'm literally, I'm like one mile away right now because our studios are in K Mesa. Yeah we figure that out. Yeah. Greg: How, and interesting kind of building off of that, so you're talking about like change and, or like long-term brand building and consistency, the idea of how connected is the creative that you're bringing to the table, to that brand's, DNA, their personality, how they're showing up in market because. Greg: We know that brands are like, obviously multifaceted, the
experience is much bigger than people's experience with that spot. What is the tension for you when you're developing creative that is going to get people's attention and the kind of foundational elements of a brand's tone, voice, personality which we know is probably bigger than the campaign. Jacques Spitzer:Okay. Trying to think of yeah, it's a good question and I think we so to maybe summarize or paint back to you having, it's like this is our brand tone of voice. This is our brand, DNA, this is the. Creative execution. I wanna make sure I'm I'm mirroring this back to you and it's we don't want what does it look like? Jacques Spitzer: 'cause we don't want to get attention for the sake of attention that doesn't map back to this, it's what I'm hearing. Yeah. More or less, I'm Greg:
imagining there are times when you hear a CMO say. We're not a funny brand or we're not a humor brand. And you your retort is yeah, but you also need to break through. Greg: I need, we need some way to get you, and this ad isn't your brand. What do those conversations look like? Jacques Spitzer:Yeah. So it's twofold. I, we never, we would never push anyone into an emotion that doesn't make sense for their brand. So just, I'll start there. That's why I'm like, no, not everything we do is humorous. Jacques Spitzer: I think sometimes people are on the fence about they're like, man, I'd really like to I'd to be able to be in this. And the way I think the best way to describe how. I think about it and maybe explain to people is, brands are like people especially in the personality where it's like you're gonna show up differently in different places. Jacques Spitzer: Like you're gonna, if when you're at a wedding, you're gonna be a different person than when you're in a boardroom
presenting something. Like you're still the same person, but you have a different expression. And I think that. That a lot with various brands. It really does come down to the archetype of the brand. Jacques Spitzer: But even look at like Elf Beauty right now, like what they're doing with humor in the beauty space. Like it's, it, I, again, it's changing the game. They are one of the fastest growing beauty brands. They're making amazing ads. It's shocking to me that more brands aren't paying attention. Jacques Spitzer:Yeah, this, it's it's not a matter of if it can work, typically it's like. How can it work for us? How, what does this look for us? What's my version of being clever? What's my version of attitude? What's my version of that? And I think knowing where and how that line is makes sense. So I hope that's a helpful ran, but I would never push, I don't think it's right for everyone. Jacques Spitzer: I wouldn't push everyone into. Any one emotion. I think there's a lot of luxury brands that, like they are selling the fact that they are unattainable or
differentiated from and yet there are a lot of brands out there that are like, we, again, it comes down to the archetype that we're looking at. Yeah. Jacques Spitzer: But yeah, I think that's the, that, that's how I would answer that question is I look at it like a person. I go, yeah, maybe you're not, maybe you're not funny, but maybe you're like, dry humor, funny. Maybe there's a little thing that you can do that attention grabbing or interesting, but not in your way. Jacques Spitzer: Rather than trying to make you something or not, that, that's how we would think about that. Nate:I like that philosophy.'cause I also think that's the tension that a lot of again, that's like why it takes work and effort and strategic thinkings and the right people having conversations because you, yeah. Nate: If you just slap like copycat marketing is how, so many brands end up doing their strategies, which aren't really, and we have a lot of conversations. You're like, that's not actually a strategy. You're literally just following the big dog in the space and you're. If brand different, and we all would agree, I think on this here that brand differentiation's only becoming increasingly more important. Nate: Totally. So if you're
stopping somebody else, you're you're it's a losing battle. Like you will not win that. And you might incrementally for a little bit, but you won't long term. And I think that's the piece that, that matters. Jacques Spitzer: Here's what's interesting. I want you to think about all of the ads right now for insurance. Jacques Spitzer:They're all 100% humor base. Yep. It's crazy. Yep. I'm like, all in, in fact. But they all, they, I haven't always been meaning there's a lot of things that have been, but I'm sure through all their testing, it's like the end of the day people want the Aflac duck or they want the, it's it's like Geico and then State Farm was like kinda late to the party, but now they're like, Jake Khaki. So yeah. Then they create these brand characters and you got flow and you got this freaking emu. I just look at that and I go, I don't know what to make of that, to be honest. Jacques Spitzer: And here's why. This is why I would say this. I think the reason that all of those brands have gone funny. Of them. Think about it
like, yeah, it's literally they'll become your parents or whatever. Is that the problem with advertising is that to do it well, you have to show people something over and over and over again. Jacques Spitzer:And so if it's boring or if it's overly sentimental, it loses its luster super fast. Whereas a funny ad, like I remember watching these ads and it was like. The Uber Eats oh Jerry loves the rice. My wife and I started saying that to each other, and then it was like every time I saw it, it only made me love it more. Jacques Spitzer: It had this effect where I was like, I enjoy that ad, and so I'm like, it's an interesting thought, but with television advertising in particular, it's man, if I have to see an ad 20 times over the next. Six months. It'd be nice if I found it funny, if I liked it. And I think that's probably why they all move towards that. Jacques Spitzer: But you're right, it isn't a, I would argue, I'm like, I don't even know what the strategy of these various groups are at this
point. The only one I could, that feel is truly differentiated is USAA. And it's like. Because they have the military thing, right? Yeah. Actually doesn't have to be Nate: the ads as much. Nate: Totally. It's wild. Jacques Spitzer:It's I'd actually like your guys' perspective on it. I'm like, what are you seeing? Because I just find it incredibly fascinating. I think it says a lot about, at the end of the day, what human beings respond to and like most from a brand. If. If that's, why else would all of these brands be beer brands too, just conglomerating around? Jacques Spitzer: Funny, I don't know. Yeah, Greg: I think you find it a lot more often in commodity based categories. Insurance is a commodity. Beer is a commodity. And also like there, there's just, there's. Very little like differentiation in terms of like product. You're looking at basically the same offering 99% of the time. Greg: You've got that plus this is a boring,
scary, lame thing. Yeah. No one loves insurance. And so when you're talking about something that no one wants to talk about. Might as well make it funny. And when you have to stick out and be remembered for something because your product is basically the same thing. Greg:Yep. It's humor's such a great way to do that. I think character all think about all of these, like all these brands like you, they don't stand for anything per se. There's nothing different between Li Liberty Mutual and Geico and, the brand, the brands themselves don't stand for anything, the characters give people something to attach to emotionally. Nate: Yeah. And truly I believe not to oversimplify, but like at the end of the day, like with that type of purchase decision, it may come down to I like IUs more than I like, like you might go, actually remember the EMU one, the mo most recent EMU commercial. Nate: Let's go there first and get that, like that, get, you get your insurance. So like it is cra crazy to think about. But I actually do think to your
point it's also what you see a lot of, right? Like in the the other side of it is it's what so if you're seeing something on repetition, I think a great example in the B2B space that was. Nate: There. I would say most people know Clickup now. But Clickup also went ham on making sure that everybody in the world saw their ad, like their ads, and they were all very simple, but most people would, at least once in their life have said, what's clickup? I've seen those billboards or those ads or those and so I think that's part of it too, right? Nate:It's like what we see plays a big role in. In purchase decision and behavior. And, and I'm a sucker for watching the golf channel and I, and also marketers get marketed hard. There's a part of me that's I wa I see the ads and I go, oh, that brand. And my wife's like, where'd you hear about that? Nate: And you're like, oh, actually subconsciously, because I was, watched it over and over and over again. So it happens to all of us. But I do think to your point on to both of what you said, I think brand, that's the tough that's the interesting thing. It's yes,
that might drive it might drive last minute purchase decision and behavior, but if it doesn't stand for something long term you, you just have to keep feeding the beast the exact same way. Nate: Like they're gonna keep pump they're gonna go, Hey, we spend 500 million plus dollars on media alone, just to make sure that people see this. Next year we're gonna have to spend 600 billion, a billion, like whatever. And again, those are all fake numbers, but it's that's the tension of versus breakthrough advertising. Nate:And I think some of the stuff that y y'all are doing at Raindrop is really interesting because it's yes, still you're still gonna spend a lot so people can see it. But our intention is it's gonna also have, it's some organic lift and impact because we're actually doing something that actually is. Nate: Standing out from the crowd of everybody else in the space. I think what y'all are doing with Spruce right now is a great example of no one else is doing that in that category. So I, yeah, I think that there's dancing, Jacques Spitzer: dancing dogs in a weed killer ad has not been done before. Yeah. In my, That's new. Yeah, that's new. Jacques Spitzer: I I appreciate that. And I actually wanted to ask, I wanted to ask
you guys too, 'cause you guys do some I, I have a crush on your work from the outside your aesthetic, like from the outside looking in. You guys do such great, beautiful. Brands and work and I'm curious to hear from you what a risk that a brand took that, that whether it was a rebrand, like whatever that looked like, what was a risk that a brand took on your guys' end? Jacques Spitzer:That again, because I think sometimes we get stuck in this idea that a risk means doing something. Yeah, and I don't think that, I don't think that is not the case. It's doing it, a risk is doing something that, you know. Is by design a little bit bigger. It's an a asymmetric. That was a great way, like by design it is a bigger swing. Jacques Spitzer: It is like I think about baseball, looking at your hat, like you're not gonna hit a home run bunting or swinging for a second, you're just not, you have to swing for the fences. Yeah. And that can take a lot of forms though. So I'm curious a time that, that you guys have seen a brand take a swing and it connected.
Greg: Yeah, I think the work we're doing right now with the cybersecurity brand Darktrace is definitely indicative of that. If you know anything or have seen any work in the cybersecurity world, it's all fud, fear, uncertainty, and doubt or ram down your throat time and time again. Greg:If you're this audience, you're made to be fearful of what's. Around the corner of the threats you don't know about. And, the biggest bands brands in the space are hiring Keanu Reeves to kick his own ass and show up and blast a, ghoul with a, some sort of wand. And it's all fear-based. Greg: And so I think. By the way, Greg, I Jacques Spitzer: don't, I haven't seen that ad. It does sound awesome. I might add to one, it's very well done. No, just kidding. Greg: I, it's very well done. Would love to make it, I dunno that it's strategically smart. Sorry for whoever's made it, but I think the our whole philosophy was you're a challenger brand. Greg: You are, you have different technology, you might as well show up different.
For our audience, they live and breathe all this stuff every day. It's normal. And in a world where AI is taking over every category, it's taking over cybersecurity too. No other brand can claim what Darktrace could do, and so we just created a world where everybody should be talking about darktrace. Greg:Cyber security should be normal because it impacts all of our lives. Everyone should know about this brand. And we used a little bit of humor. It was smart humor, like they have to be taken seriously. But you'd be hard pressed not to find a single other ad that's using smart, kind of witty humor in the cybersecurity space. Greg: And and it's working. We just got a LinkedIn study back last week that that's working really well for them. And we'll probably continue to do more of the same. I Jacques Spitzer: love that. I love that. Also I that the Darktrace ads is the one with the balloons in the elevator too, you guys. Jacques Spitzer: Yeah. I love that one. That's one of
the spots for sure. Yeah. I love that. Nate: It was fun to make. And and also I think to your point I think. Often the most rewarding part of working with marketers, client side and as an and I would say speak for us as an agency too, has been, nothing is more fulfilling than being able to create collaboratively and see something impact their core audience in a way that is different from how it's been done before. Nate:And and then everyone goes, hell yeah. Let's keep doing this 'cause this is awesome. And that's that's why we do this. To your point. Yeah. It's it's interesting 'cause our paths are quite similar, jock in. I think Greg and I have had these conversations that like, we've, both agencies have been around for a similar amount of time, but we've had those conversations around like, why do we do this? Nate: It's to serve and help people. And it's funny that that was core. There's something innate in when that happens and you can celebrate with clients as to the impact that the work is making
on their business. Totally. Nothing better. Jacques Spitzer: Totally. That's, it's interesting how that that is very much the high, that is not just with the client, but also seeing people Nate: respond. Nate: Yes. People in general. It's really, Jacques Spitzer: yeah, it's really gratifying. Nate:Love it. For sure. I know we're we're rocking the end of time, but jock, thank you so much for taking time outta your day to chat with us and to share about risk and creativity and where can people find you if they want to connect with you and learn more, where can they find. Nate: You, Jacques Spitzer: I am very active on pretty much every platform there is. So you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm also on x I'm also on meta. I'm everywhere. I am like the internet. I am everywhere. So you can find me anywhere. Nate: Love it. Awesome. Thanks everybody for tuning in. Join us again next week and keep in touch with Jock and Jock. Nate: Thanks again for your time today, and y'all have a great day. Jacques Spitzer: Stay adventurous. Cheers. Bye.
